In this episode, we take up one of the most puzzling and fascinating passages in the Zhuangzi: the “happy fish debate” between Zhuangzi and Huizi. Can Zhuangzi really know that the fish are happy if he is not a fish? Along the way, we explore skepticism, language, animal minds, and the ordinary but surprisingly sophisticated ways we recognize joy in other living things. Continue reading →
Author Archives: Justin Tiwald
Episode 35 of “This Is the Way”: Confucius on Moral Examples
Confucian philosophers often suggest that having good and bad examples plays a critical role in moral education and motivation. How do good examples figure into our ethical education, and how do bad examples help us discover vices or shortcomings in our selves? In this episode, we discuss this wide-ranging issue in connection with the Analects of Confucius, beginning with Confucius’s famous remark that he can find a teacher in just about any social setting (even when out walking with at least two other people chosen at random). Continue reading →
Episode 34 of “This Is the Way”: Deference and Autonomy in Confucian Ethics
Many of us value autonomy in decision-making: we want to make our own choices and think for ourselves. But we also know that in many areas of life, it is well advised to have greater faith in people who know more than we do, in experts such as doctors, scientists, plumbers, chess coaches, teachers, and maybe even philosophers.
In this episode of This Is the Way, we explore moral autonomy and moral deference in Confucian philosophy, focusing on Xunzi’s powerful defense of trusting tradition, ritual, and moral experts. We also explore some powerful objections to Xunzi by later Confucians who worried that too much deference to external sources might make real moral understanding — and thus real moral virtue — impossible. Continue reading →
Episode 33 of “This Is the Way”: Carrots, Sticks, and Rituals
What’s the best way to fight corruption: harsh laws and fear of punishment, or rituals and moral transformation? In this episode we discuss a deep disagreement that takes its inspiration from the political philosophies of the Confucian philosopher Xunzi and the Legalist philosopher Han Feizi. We are also happily joined by Professor Daniel Bell of the University of Hong Kong, one of the world’s leading experts in Chinese political thought. Bell reimagines the views of Xunzi and Han Feizi in his book Why Ancient Chinese Political Thought Matters: Four Dialogues on Chinese Past, Present, and Future. There he stages he stages the debate as a dialogue between a modern-day Professor Xun and his student Han Fei, set against the backdrop of the recent anti-corruption campaign in the People’s Republic of China. The conversation ranges from the psychology of rewards and punishments to meritocracy, institutional design, the question of whether good governance can ever be decoupled from good character, and whether Confucians might be the true realists after all. Continue reading →
Episode 32 of “This Is the Way”: Music Has in It neither Grief nor Joy
When you hear sad music and feel some sadness in response, is that because the music has successfully carried the sadness of the musician to you as the listener? Or is it better to say that the sadness is in you, released by the music but not “carried” by it? In this show (our second with a live audience), we discuss the music theory of the third-century philosopher Ji Kang 嵆康 (223–262 CE), who argued against the “carrier” view of music and for a more complicated and pluralistic account of the emotional contents of music. We also discuss Ji Kang’s interpretation of a famously evocative and mysterious passage in the Zhuangzi, regarding the “piping of Heaven.” To guide us in discussing these issues, we lean heavily on our guest, Meilin Chinn of Santa Clara University, a leading expert on the philosophy of music in China. Continue reading →
Episode 31 of “This Is the Way”: The Great Music Debate — Mohists vs. Classical Confucians
Is music an extravagance in a world of scarcity or a necessary expression of our humanity? We explore Mozi’s consequentialist condemnation of elaborate musical performances and Xunzi’s argument that music, proper guided, plays a critical role in taming unruly emotions and building social bonds. Beneath the disagreement lies a profound clash over basic human goods, how emotion should be shaped, and whether the arts are dispensable or essential to human flourishing. Continue reading →
Live audience recording of “This Is the Way” in Santa Clara: February 12, 2026
Richard Kim and Justin Tiwald will be recording another podcast episode with a live audience on the evening of February 12, 2026, on the campus of Santa Clara University (SCU) in California, USA. Their guest will be SCU’s Meilin Chinn, and the topic will be the philosophy of music in the thought of Ji Kang 嵇康 (a.k.a. Xi Kang, 224-263 CE).
Here are the event details: Continue reading →
Episode 30 of “This Is the Way”: Confucianism and Reverential Reading
In this episode, we explore Zhu Xi’s striking account of how to read philosophical and other important texts with what he calls “reverential attention.” Blending close reading with reflections on learning, character, and distraction in modern life, we discuss how Zhu Xi tries to make reading simultaneously transformative and objective. The discussion raises a fascinating puzzle at the heart of Zhu’s approach: how can we personalize our reading so that it shapes us, while also preventing our own biases from distorting the text? Continue reading →
Episode 29 of “This Is the Way”: Shen Dao on Law
Early in Chinese history, a number of political thinkers developed sophisticated arguments for relying on consistent application of laws rather than the personal discretion of political authorities to govern the state. In this episode, we explore the arguments of one of the early pioneers of this way of thinking, Shen Dao 慎到 (c. 350-275 BCE). We are joined by a leading expert on Shen Dao and Chinese Legalism, Eirik Lang Harris. Continue reading →
Episode 28 of “This Is the Way”: Mencius Against Mohist Impartialism
In this episode, we continue our exploration of Mohist impartial caring (jian’ai 兼愛) by examining two of Mencius’s most influential objections: (1) the “Without a Father” Argument (Mencius 3B9) and (2) the “Two Roots” Argument (Mencius 3A5).
Along the way, we take up some important questions: Should moral values be impartial even between family members and total strangers? Is radical impartiality incompatible with being human? And should ethics be grounded in (rational) doctrine or in human nature? Continue reading →
